Download a Parts List. Don't start from scratch!

I have a lot of hours invested in creating a pretty thorough parts list for S.3 Lammy's. There will be times in the future when you some of you will need to create such a list and over time, we'll just continue to recreate the wheel. I am putting an end to that now:

I have published two spreadsheets (sheets 1 & 2) for you to (1) add to and grow for others and (2) download and adapt for your own purposes. It is a Google Docs file and you can copy/paste or export it into MS Excel and alike.

Here it is and here is where it will stay.

Please put it to use and pass it along . . .

A very easy way to look up your part number and part name for your bike is to use the Interactive MB Developments' Interactive Diagram Manual.

I also recommend that immediately after you disassemble your scooter you photograph the parts that you have, because you will likely pack it all up to keep your shop clean and looking at a picture is faster than rummaging through boxes of parts.

For example, here is my bike minus the incomplete second engine and frame parts:

More Misc. Parts:

Engine parts:

Engine Case Cleaning

This post is a continuation of my previous research.

I can not find anyone who soda blasts or vapor/dry ice blasts in the Bay Area. Crap. So here are alternatives my research turned up beside medium blasting.

"I didn't blast my cases. I first cleaned them some nasty brakecleaner stuff (only as much as needed) and scrubbing, then soaked themin a big rubbermaid tub filled with gallons of household vinegar. Thetrick is to only leave them there for a few days (depending on how dirty) and not longer. Vinegar is a great solvent but can also eat
away at plating (eg for the hardware) if left too long. It will also eventually dissolve cast iron. Don't ask me how I know this. Anyway, just a few days in the vinegar bath, then out they come and more scrubbing, perhaps with some brake cleaner or solvent, but more likely with just a bunch of simple green. Then buff with a brass wire brush
(steel wool works too but can fray into tons of little bits). Fine auto finish sandpaper would probably work too. This gives it a nice matte factory finish. I am not a fan of painting or chroming cases--maybe for a custom bike, but I didn't want it for my TV. I have never tried media blasting but that would probably work too if you did some prepwork on the cases and had a guy you could work with and understood instructions. You want softer media of course (the
shop I go to for other parts uses walnut shells) and might even get a nice satin finish." - Ming

No powder coat

I am not gonna powder coat my scooter after all for a couple reasons: (1) my front fender is fiberglass and can not go in the oven (2) my body work is not perfect and will require work pre paint and there is no guarantee the prep will survive the over and finally (3) gas tanks with welds don't do well in the oven.

Finally, getting a correct paint match is not possible (with PPG either). Here's what was said on the LCUSA forum regarding matching powder coat color.

This is what my research turned up:

"Greetings. Ramble mode "on." I've got mixed emotions about poweder coating. That said, I've heard good things about Maas Bros. Though I used a joint in Concord for my stuff. The mixed emotions are based on the fact that while powder coating is tough you simply can't repair it. Plus, you'd be hard-pressed to get the powder coat to match the paint you'll use on the FG fender. "Conventional" paint is more expensive 'cause there's just more work involved.

Of the restorations in our fleet some are powder coated, some are painted with "conventional" paint and some are even rattle can. The body work on Anne's CB160 race bike has held up very well over the last few years - it was rattle canned. WCLW did the paint on my Series II about 10 years ago and, for the most part, it's help up well too. Plus, I can touch it up if I ever get around to it.

If you're going for a 100 point restoration I'd go with conventional paint - as much as the powder coated stuff we have looks like "paint" on close inspection you can tell it's not.

Bottom line - I think you get what you pay for in a finish job. Regardless of what route you go, ask lots of questions about the prep work - that's key to a good finish. Ramble mode "off." Ciao." - Dave Stark

"The problem with powder coating.......... Where do I start? Think of it like chroming. The base metal has to be in really good shape for starters. Then you have the heat aspect of it. You can warp a frame pretty easily by heating and cooling it. Grounding issues, it's tough to ground electrics through the powder. Color matching is harder, the finish isn't as good as paint usually and sand blasting removes base metal. Gas tanks, there is another lever of problems, grit. It's bad for carbs and top ends and gets everywhere when tanks are blasted. Anyways that's the short of it. I've had whole bikes coated before and its just not as good one would think.

I'm not anti anything, it's just some things are better suited for certain applications. Depends on what you want to powdercoat. Rims, forks, small bits are good to coat. Big stuff like frames, pannels, bars and legshields just cause more problems than it's worth." - Mike A.

"Labor rates here seem to run from $15 to $30 an hour (in Portland, OR). The paint and bodywork on my TV cost me 2000 in labor. With parts and supplies the total came closer to 3000. It was all 2-stage Dupont, no
powdercoating. Powdercoating is nice and durable but it does not have the same quality or repairability as a good paint job. Should be fine for stuf like hubs and rims though.

I went with a show quality finish so you get what you pay for. There are many other paint/bodywork folks in town but I've really only worked with my guy. He also did Dave's award-winning Starstream. His specialty is classic custom Harley pan-heads and shovel-heads and would rather keep to that level of finish. Rudy has his own paint &
body person as does Mike. Mike's guy does single stage which is nice for vintage bikes and gives them a more period look." - Ming

For those in the Bay Area that want to Powder Coat, the best price I found for a single color was $300-$400 for a Lambretta at Maas Brothers Powder Coat in Livermore, CA.

Li vs TV Forks?

When Stu sold me the TV he showed me how his machinist destroyed the original TV forks (as noted in my earliest posts) and he told me that the only difference between his Li forks and the TV was the shock mounts, which he has his welder (a hot rod guy) weld on correctly and I received the Li forks. The idea being that no one would know the difference, not even an anorak with a ruler.

Then it hit me, would my TV fork links work with Li forks? Crap! So I emailed Mike A. and asked him if there would be a difference for the fork links. This is what he said:

"Jem Booth listed all the head tube length diffrences between forks. In theory they should be the same for S3 chrome ring bikes but in reality they can be difrent. The info is posted on the LCGB and LCUSA, but I don't have the links handy. You will have to measure the 2 forks and see if they are the same. The use which ever one fits your frame best." - Mike

I emailed Stu and asked him to measure the TV fork and I will measure the Li one. Then compare using what Jem Booth posted.

Dealing with a stained seat

As you can see I have a stained seat. I posted a request for help on the LCUSA forum and here is what transcribed:

Below you can see what the seat looked like pre-cleaned with saddle soap.

"I placed my red bench seat upside down on top of its springs and grease made its way onto the seat quite visibly. Any reason I should NOT use Murphy's Oil Soap or some other leather cleaner on it?
If so, what do you recommend I clean it with and why?" - Jeremy

Below is a picture of the seat after three washes using saddle soap. See it shine.
"..probably vinyl and not real leather. Gonna be hard to wash with the hard rubber backing. I'd try mild soapy water and a soft sponge, don't scrub." - ALexM

Below is another picture of the seat after being cleaned in the natural sun light. As you can see the entire seat responded well to the cleaning, but the stain is still there and didn't seem to improve.
"Alex is right, mild dish soap or diluted Simple Green to clean the vinyl. If you want to make it look pretty after that then I recommend something like Meguiars Vinyl and Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner. Gives it a matte shine unlike Armor All which makes it look wet all the time and is so slick your ass will probably slide right off." - Ming

Below is a close up of one of the main stains after the cleaning.
"Try gojo hand cleaner with or without pumice" - Rude De / "What Rude De said. I have used it for many years to clean paintjobs too. Make sure to use non pumice on paintjobs." - DiryHandsLopez

Below is a picture of the smaller main stain. Picture is a little out of focused so you can't tell that the stain is worse than what you see here.
"IMO,
It depends on how old and worn the seat is. If its older, it will be more porous and likely to stain from any sort of cleaner you put on there. My guess is it is probably is a bit aged because if it was newer vinyl it might not have gotten stained from grease in the first place...just a guess. Therefore, if it was me, and especially if its an original seat, I would clean the whole thing with saddle soap (follow instructions, get it nice and foamy with a bit of water and a sponge and wipe it off right away. I like to keep a little bucket of water to rinse the sponge in) starting from the front and work toward the back. While going over that stained area, I would introduce a bit of simple green for a while if its stubborn but move past it fairly quickly until you do the whole seat. Then come back to it if you didnt get it all the first time around. Let it dry. If the simple green didnt work well enough and the whole thing looks like it responded well, I would do it all over again and then yes, try the gojo on the spot this time. I would avoid doing any sort of spot cleaning especially if the cleaner had any sort of a oily, solvent or parafin type base.

my three cents.
mo peace and less grease, Beat

Oh, of course do this out of direct sunlight while the seat's not hot." - Beat

Below you can see a small tear I have in the vinyl. I hope to use a vinyl glue to prevent it from tearing any more.
"Sad and good news. The entire red seat responded well to the saddle soap. I washed it three times in a row. First with a light wash. Then heavy and finally a medium lather to wrap it up. The seat looks great, except for the fact that the stains are still 100% there. I feel a bit pissed at myself, because I put the seat in the situation that resulted in this stain unneccesarily. Stupid! I did not have Simple Green or Gojo. I assume you recommend Simple Green with the method you suggested and then Gojo if that's a no go? Any other suggestions?" - Jeremy

Below is a picture of the emblem and rear end of the seat. I want to determine if this is an original seat or not.
Does this look like an original stock seat to you guys?

Here is the entire seat below.
Above is the seat frame and the underside of the upholstered part.

What I find interesting here is there appears to be a price tag or some type of label on the underside of the seat.

Soda blasting and powder coating in East Bay San Francisco

I have been in contact with Aidan, a fellow LCUSA member, and we have been hunting for a local soda blaster. I posted the question on LCUSA's forum and Guillermo of Lambretta Works suggested"Leons Powder Coating" in Oakland, CA. I emailed the Leon Family for the following estimate(s):

Hello Leons Family,

I am restoring a 1962 Italian Lambretta motorscooter. It is all metal. There are three things I'd like to you if (1) you do, (2) what the ball park estimate is, and (3) what type of turn around can I expect?

---------- Projects ----------
1) I need to have two engine (3/4s the size of lawn mower engine) cases soda blaster. I have a friend who may also wish to do one to two of his engines at the same time if we can get a "batch" rate on the job.

2) My scooter will require some very light body work straightening out two to four panels of the body.

3) I would like to have my entire scooter body prepped and painted in two colors. It would look like this:
http://www.smellofdeath.com/lloydy/images/Jays_tv175_1.jpg

This may serve as a point of reference:
http://lambrettarestoration.blogspot.com/2007/10/vision-for-when-all-is-said-and-done.html

The majority of the parts are quite small.

In coral red (Lechler system colors #8065)
fork, frame, leg-shield, handle bar and headset, floorboard tunnel, wheel hubs, front disc brake backing plate, wheel rims, spare wheel holder, glove box lid, tail-light body, fuel tap hatch, stand, stand mudguard, right-hand rear running board L-bracket air intake (beneath saddle), side-panels, front cowling, horn grille, and front mudguard (fiberglass).

In new white (Lechler system colors #8059):
fuel tank, rear mudguard, cylinder head, air intake manifold (2 pieces), glove box, air box, filter carrier, fuel tank support strap, and battery support strap.

---------- ---------- ---------- ----------

I recognize I provided an abundance of information, but I figured too much is better than two little). I suspect it is possible that you have also done some work on vintage Lambretta scooters as well. Guillermo of Lambretta Works says you guys do great work.

Note: I will post the response. I am very close to being ready to soda blast my engines.

Update: July 31, 2009.

I am beginning to research the prep and paint process of my scoot.

I considered soda blasting the engine cases, but am now looking into vapor/dry ice blasting, because there is no clean up of the cases and it is supposed to be a lot cheaper.

For powder coat I have turned up:

I am in discussions with Leons Powder Coating & Sand Blasting now. $250 quote for major parts and small parts will be extra. I am trying to find out the cap on the entire bike for media blast and powder.

I just spoke with Curtis of Melrose Metal Finishing in East Bay. He quoted me $1200 cash (I asked him to HIGH ball his quote and he did) to medium blast and powder in two colors using the RAL system or paint chip. He said the bike must be delivered with all body work done and ready to be blasted and painted. He has worked on motorcycles before. He does not want to powder coat the gas tank, because the heat and the seams of the tank. He would rather liquid paint this. He really recommended going with wet paint if there is a body work to be done.

A few months back a local club member, Mike C., was telling me how impressed he was with the knowledge of powdering a scooter from a phone call he had with West Coast Powder Coating in South San Francisco. He was quoted $1000 for the whole Lambretta. He didn't end up using him, but he said it sounds like this guy knows what's up.

Lambretta tools by Dien Nguyen

My father-in-law has 30 plus years experience as a professional welder and when it come to fabricating most things he can do it. Hell, he redid our entire kitchen in our previous home. He's got mad game when it comes to "projects". I cashed in yet again with him this July (2009). Mr. Nguyen is a refugee from Vietnam and escaped the fall of Saigon with less than 24 hours before it fell. He tells my wife and I stories of his love of Lambrettas when he was younger. He said that Vespas were for old people in Vietnam and young rode Lambrettas. He loves Lambrettas. We went for a ride together a few years back and he can ride too.

Anyhow, I showed him pictures and measurements of a clutch compressor I borrowed from Dano of FLCSC in Oakland and this is what he made me (note that Dano's is in back of mine):I ended up with a professional quality clutch compressor for free made from scraps at my father-in-law's work. I am pretty damn happy.

I wasn't overly worried about polishing mine, but I did grind/sand down the tip of the bolt so as it would not hurt the scoot itself. An alternative design can be found here. It would look something like this.

Another tool he made for me was the con-rod tool. Mr. Nguyen followed Jim M.'s design on this one. I can grind the inside smooth no problem, but to be honest it may not be necessary. Crude looking tools that function properly do not bother me at all as long as they do not hurt the scoot. A crude looking restoration is what would bother me.

Thanx Bo (dad in Vietnamese). As usual I owe you one!