My crank would not spin and neither would my flywheel. I suspected them to be seized together by mud, muck, and or rust. I asked my mentors how to address and here are the responses:
"The crank and flywheel not spinning is not really an issue since they are getting replaced. Could be the fly and crank side bearings are seized to the crank. You need to remove the flywheel and tap the crank out. I say tap but you will probably pound the crank out. Before you beat on it and ruin it, hit it with heat, and soak it in liquid wrench on the fly wheel side. Keep me posted."- Stu
If your primary chain is removed on the gearcase side (leaving nothing attached to the clutch side crank taper), and your cylinder is off already -- and your flywheel and crank still won't move, then either (a) the bottom end conrod bearing is locked up, (b) the flywheel is rusted to the stator (or packed with debris), (c) the flywheel side mag bearings are rusted in place, (d)the crank webs are rusted to the case, or (e) some combination of the above.
Pics might help here.
You might try pulling the flywheel and seeing if that helps." - Tom G.
Update: I ordered the flywheel puller from Scooters Originali and happily that solved entire problem. I removed the flywheel and the crank moved. I removed the crank and it looks to be in good shape. I never found what caused it all to stick together. I will post pictures in a slideshow of this. i will title it engine disassembly part 2.
Wednesday, July 8, 2009
Stuck flywheel bearing
Emailed my mentor Mike A.
Mike,
I am working on the fly wheel bearing. Heat gun got it piping hot. I tapped the housing on a wooden surface and bearing moved a little. Reheated and tapped against wood again. No movement. Stuck in place. Used a 24mm (my largest) socket to tap it out. It went to the end is just sitting there. Won't move further. Of course the socket bent up
the metal plate behind the bearing. Crap! I will need to replace that. I will try to reheat yet again and repeat the process.
Jeremy
Mike's response:
"yep you stuck the bearing. I said I use a propane torch for a reason, the heat gun just won't get things hot enough to work right. Actually I've had good luck using MAPP gass which burns even hotter than propane but requires a little more skill to not ruin anything.
Here is how you fix it.
Use a propane torch. Cheap to buy from Home Depot or Lowes (any hardware store really)
Heat up the mag flange. Move the torch around the flange to keep the heat even.
After about 5-7 min it should be ready to go.
Now carefully tap the bearing back home, you need to free up the jam. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE, the outer part of the flange around the bearing is very thin and can easilly snap off making your mag flange in to a paperweight. Sometimes the bearing will drop back in to place but not usually.
Turn the mag over so the bearing will want to drop out, over a coffee can works well, make sure the bearing/flange is level!!!. I use my big vice to support the mag while I heat it up.
Keep heating the flange up. After about 5 min if the bearing hasen't droped out on its own then try to tap it out. You want to use a socket thats just smaller than the outer hole on the mag so the seal can EVENLY push the bearing out. If I remember right a 27mm works well (and is the same for the rear hub nut).
Things are going to smoke (a lot) and be really really hot so don't touch things with out gloves or pliers. Once I get the bearing out I like to set the mag flange (or case) aside on the garage floor out of the way to allow it to cool down. Once it's cool clean/degrease it.
Getting things back together are harder and take a bit of patience to do right and not melt the seal. You might want to have some one with some more expierence put the bearings in for you to stay on the safe side. I can do it but it might be a pain to get the parts here, it would be easier to call Barry at SF scooter center.
If you want to send the parts to me I have time to do the job. Next day turn around." - Mike
Next step: I requested and received a free propane torch from Freecycle.org and now need to get a 27mm deep socket.
Mike,
I am working on the fly wheel bearing. Heat gun got it piping hot. I tapped the housing on a wooden surface and bearing moved a little. Reheated and tapped against wood again. No movement. Stuck in place. Used a 24mm (my largest) socket to tap it out. It went to the end is just sitting there. Won't move further. Of course the socket bent up
the metal plate behind the bearing. Crap! I will need to replace that. I will try to reheat yet again and repeat the process.
Jeremy
Mike's response:
"yep you stuck the bearing. I said I use a propane torch for a reason, the heat gun just won't get things hot enough to work right. Actually I've had good luck using MAPP gass which burns even hotter than propane but requires a little more skill to not ruin anything.
Here is how you fix it.
Use a propane torch. Cheap to buy from Home Depot or Lowes (any hardware store really)
Heat up the mag flange. Move the torch around the flange to keep the heat even.
After about 5-7 min it should be ready to go.
Now carefully tap the bearing back home, you need to free up the jam. BE VERY CAREFUL HERE, the outer part of the flange around the bearing is very thin and can easilly snap off making your mag flange in to a paperweight. Sometimes the bearing will drop back in to place but not usually.
Turn the mag over so the bearing will want to drop out, over a coffee can works well, make sure the bearing/flange is level!!!. I use my big vice to support the mag while I heat it up.
Keep heating the flange up. After about 5 min if the bearing hasen't droped out on its own then try to tap it out. You want to use a socket thats just smaller than the outer hole on the mag so the seal can EVENLY push the bearing out. If I remember right a 27mm works well (and is the same for the rear hub nut).
Things are going to smoke (a lot) and be really really hot so don't touch things with out gloves or pliers. Once I get the bearing out I like to set the mag flange (or case) aside on the garage floor out of the way to allow it to cool down. Once it's cool clean/degrease it.
Getting things back together are harder and take a bit of patience to do right and not melt the seal. You might want to have some one with some more expierence put the bearings in for you to stay on the safe side. I can do it but it might be a pain to get the parts here, it would be easier to call Barry at SF scooter center.
If you want to send the parts to me I have time to do the job. Next day turn around." - Mike
Next step: I requested and received a free propane torch from Freecycle.org and now need to get a 27mm deep socket.
Another purchase
I received my most recent order from Danell at SPD. They had some bearings on clearance and I bought them for the 2nd engine I plan to build. I also bought a brass throttle, which I will need.
My package included:
$20 - CasaLambretta rear hub bearing (Made in Italy in Mecur packaging)
$8 - FAG 6004 bearing (made in Portugal)
$8 - SKF 6305/C3 (made in India, but I may toss this one)
$20 - Li/GP Brass throttle pulley, sm
$0 - Makino clutch plates Lambretta Li (gift from Danell. They were free included in the package).
(plus a $34 Vespa part I needed was included in the total below)
Grand total with shipping $90.77
I bought these bearings to rebuild the spare engine. I also needed those clutch plates for the spare engine so that is good. The brass pulley will be used in the restoration of my TV as it is missing.
Thx Danell for the clutch plate gift!
Wednesday, July 1, 2009
The Jim McClenaghan Lambretta Tool Set
A while back I contacted my mentor Stu Werner about making my own Lammy tools, because my father-in-law is a welder. I asked Stu if I could do it and he said:
"Hell yes! I have a fantastic homemade tool to extract the mag flange off cases. It works on really stuck ones and pushes off the crank. I find the t-extrators can strip the holes in the mag flange if you are not extremely careful. You can use long bolts you buy at the hardware store instead of t-hadles. Thats what I have. They are the same thread pattern as the rear hub extractor bolts.(there are 2 different sizes of rear hub bolts for the extractor). I have to throw this in, when you do extract the flange off the case, heat up the case around the flange with a torch.
You could make most of the tools yourself. A clutch holder, maybe a flywheel holder, clutch compressor, clutch spring holder etc. They all look a little ghetto even the "pro" made ones..." - Stu
I posted the question on LCUSA and Jim responded:
"Most tools are fairly easily fabricated, and I've made most myself.
The easiest, is probably the clutch holder. Take an old metal clutch plate, braze or weld two 1" lugs (from 1/8" sheet) at 180 deg and you're done.
The clutch compressor is a little more complicated, but only because you need to measure it more precisely. Measure across one of your cases, allow a height for the tool of at least 4", and also give yourself some allowance on the bolt holes (to the cases) so that you can centre the compressor bolt properly. Another way around this, is to add a wide nut to the centre bolt, which will give you more leeway, but it's easier to centre using the case bolts.
A flywheel holder is also very simple. Use 3" NB pipe, with a wall thickness of less than sch 40. All you need is an off cut, so it shouldn't cost you anything. Find someone working on a construction site, and you'll be good.
You can make an engine mount tool from (UK size) scaffolding. Failling that, get 2.1/2" NB pipe, sch 80 or thereabouts and go from there.
I do have a drawing I did for a fork compressor tool around somewhere, and I can up load it if you want. If I can find the time at work, I could do drawings for all of these tools, but it won't be this week, unfortunately." - Jim
"It would be possible to make a flywheel remover, but you'd want to do it on a lathe, using hexagonal bar stock rather than pipe. The problem with using pipe, is that it would have to be heavy wall (XXS or better), and you'd still have to machine the flats on it for tightening into the flywheel. The centre bolt needs to line up precisely too, so you'd want to machine it rather than welding a nut on. Another reason to use a lathe, is because the thread size is quite unusual (metric fine for the Italian ones, I think), and it would be expensive to buy a die that large.
All in all, probably easier/cheaper to buy one from Casa or wherever.
The rear hub extractor is a little different. The type all the shops sell is a bit crap - it woks, but not too well. You could fabricate a good one, from steel plate, and a nut welded in the centre, and it would be far more gentle on the hub. The original Innocenti tool is this style (ie 2 leg gear puller). I don't have one, but it would be easy enough to make, and fairly forgiving dimensionally. There is a picture of one in the "Sticky's" manual, so we can probably figure out workable dimensions.
You'll want to use 1/4" (6mm) plate for this, and for the clutch compressor and fork link compressor.
I have a con rod holder, which you'll be able to make too. It's basically just a piece of 1/2" plate, with a slot cut in it, although 1/4" should work just fine." - Jim
A big thanx to LCUSA member Jim M. for providing the following plans to make your own Lammy tools. PDFs are available as well.
Clutch compressor:
Con rod tool:
Flywheel holder:
Fork compressor:
Jim's rear hub holder made with 1/2 an old Lammy rim:
Click photos to enlarge.
I will post photos of the tools I have made in early August as I will be visiting my in-laws in Portland, OR. I am in contact with a Lucky Bastard Scooter Club member and I may be able to have some actual tools loaned to me to use as a reference when making these tools.
"Hell yes! I have a fantastic homemade tool to extract the mag flange off cases. It works on really stuck ones and pushes off the crank. I find the t-extrators can strip the holes in the mag flange if you are not extremely careful. You can use long bolts you buy at the hardware store instead of t-hadles. Thats what I have. They are the same thread pattern as the rear hub extractor bolts.(there are 2 different sizes of rear hub bolts for the extractor). I have to throw this in, when you do extract the flange off the case, heat up the case around the flange with a torch.
You could make most of the tools yourself. A clutch holder, maybe a flywheel holder, clutch compressor, clutch spring holder etc. They all look a little ghetto even the "pro" made ones..." - Stu
I posted the question on LCUSA and Jim responded:
"Most tools are fairly easily fabricated, and I've made most myself.
The easiest, is probably the clutch holder. Take an old metal clutch plate, braze or weld two 1" lugs (from 1/8" sheet) at 180 deg and you're done.
The clutch compressor is a little more complicated, but only because you need to measure it more precisely. Measure across one of your cases, allow a height for the tool of at least 4", and also give yourself some allowance on the bolt holes (to the cases) so that you can centre the compressor bolt properly. Another way around this, is to add a wide nut to the centre bolt, which will give you more leeway, but it's easier to centre using the case bolts.
A flywheel holder is also very simple. Use 3" NB pipe, with a wall thickness of less than sch 40. All you need is an off cut, so it shouldn't cost you anything. Find someone working on a construction site, and you'll be good.
You can make an engine mount tool from (UK size) scaffolding. Failling that, get 2.1/2" NB pipe, sch 80 or thereabouts and go from there.
I do have a drawing I did for a fork compressor tool around somewhere, and I can up load it if you want. If I can find the time at work, I could do drawings for all of these tools, but it won't be this week, unfortunately." - Jim
"It would be possible to make a flywheel remover, but you'd want to do it on a lathe, using hexagonal bar stock rather than pipe. The problem with using pipe, is that it would have to be heavy wall (XXS or better), and you'd still have to machine the flats on it for tightening into the flywheel. The centre bolt needs to line up precisely too, so you'd want to machine it rather than welding a nut on. Another reason to use a lathe, is because the thread size is quite unusual (metric fine for the Italian ones, I think), and it would be expensive to buy a die that large.
All in all, probably easier/cheaper to buy one from Casa or wherever.
The rear hub extractor is a little different. The type all the shops sell is a bit crap - it woks, but not too well. You could fabricate a good one, from steel plate, and a nut welded in the centre, and it would be far more gentle on the hub. The original Innocenti tool is this style (ie 2 leg gear puller). I don't have one, but it would be easy enough to make, and fairly forgiving dimensionally. There is a picture of one in the "Sticky's" manual, so we can probably figure out workable dimensions.
You'll want to use 1/4" (6mm) plate for this, and for the clutch compressor and fork link compressor.
I have a con rod holder, which you'll be able to make too. It's basically just a piece of 1/2" plate, with a slot cut in it, although 1/4" should work just fine." - Jim
A big thanx to LCUSA member Jim M. for providing the following plans to make your own Lammy tools. PDFs are available as well.
Clutch compressor:
Con rod tool:
Flywheel holder:
Fork compressor:
Jim's rear hub holder made with 1/2 an old Lammy rim:
Click photos to enlarge.
I will post photos of the tools I have made in early August as I will be visiting my in-laws in Portland, OR. I am in contact with a Lucky Bastard Scooter Club member and I may be able to have some actual tools loaned to me to use as a reference when making these tools.
Know your bearings!
When it comes to engines there are a couple parts you wouldn't want to even think about skimping on, such as your crank or bearings. Imagine them going.
There is a lot of crap bearings being sold via the gray market and now some reputable shops won't even carry major brands, such as SKF. And there is a lot of inconsistency of quality in the some major bearing brands. Ask your shop what their policy is on bearings.
Remember when Mongoose BMX bikes were great bikes or when Iams was one of the top three dog foods? It wasn't that long ago! Now you can find Mongoose bikes being sold at Target and Iams at Walmart. People I speak with say, Iams is great food! Until I show them the ingredients and they feel like crap for feeding it to their dog for so long. They didn't do their research -- they just went off of brand name and previous reputation.
One reputable shop told me, "The gist is that our main bearing supplier won't order SKF bearings any more, because SKF will not guarantee which country the bearings were made in. He'd order the same stuff month to month, and one month they might be from Germany, and the next from India. He has clients with much higher stress applications than us, and they need a guarantee of quality, which can't be done when the bearings come from different countries like that. So, he won't stock SKF anymore, and nor will many other proper bearing houses."
Please always ask your bearing distributer where your bearings were made (it must be stamped on the bearing) and confirm that it was made to be used in the USA.
The shop also explained to me . . .
We don't use bearings from India full stop. The quality is too up and down and there have been plenty of problems with them over the years. Some seem fine, and other have catastrophic failure.
It doesn't matter which manufacturer made the bearing. You have to know 100% where the bearing was made and which country it was intended for. Which is why we only buy bearings from the same bearing house we've been buying from for years.
NSK bearings can be made in China. It depends who you are getting them off. If there is no country of origin marked on the bearing, they are from China.
Also, if you buy a bearing that was brought in on the grey market, there is no guarantee of quality, even of it was made in Japan or Europe. Dodgy bearing dealers import cheap bearings that were made for other countries, and not intended for use in the US. They are lower quality. Look for the case "SKF USA, Inc. v. International Trade Commission, 2005". It explains it all, and even some official brand bearing dealers are doing it.
Do your research! Eating it at 60 mph on 10 inch tires isn't worth it.
I ordered most of my bearings from Kaman Industrial Technologies and two of them are stamped "Japan" and the third (6305VV.C3) is not stamped at all. I called my rep immediately and said "are they from China?" She told me according to NSK . . . "PER FACTORY ALL MADE IN JAPAN". I feel a little a nervous.
Please do comment should you know anything contrary to this.
I emailed NSK the following:
Hello NSK,
I am rebuilding a vintage Lambretta scooter that can travel upwards up 60 mph and I purchased NSK bearings (some will be exposed to gasoline/oil mixture and require the tolerance for an engine) for the engine because of the positive reputation NSK has. I purchased them through Kaman Industrial Technologies.
From doing research, I have learned that there are a lot of grey market bearings be sold in the USA, which were not intended for use in America. Some of your name-brand competitors have gone to court over this because those bearings and stamped with their name on it. Bearings that do not have the country stamped on it often come from China and may not be of USA quality.
My questions are:
1) My biggest concern is I purchased NSK 6305VVC3 Radial Ball Bearing and there is NO indication of what country it was made in. The bearing is not stamped on the metal. The seals are stamped "6305V NSK A29" and the other side is stamped "6305V NSK A33". The bearing does not even indicate it is a C3 tolerance bearing, only the box does. The box does not indicate what country it was made in. Are you able to tell me where this bearing was made? And can you tell me if it was intended for use in the USA?
2) I purchased two other bearings that are stamped "Japan" and on the back of both boxes it says "made in Japan." The bearings are: NSK NU205M Cylindrical roller Bearing and NSK 6004 Radial Ball Bearing. Can you confirm that these were made for use in USA?
My thought is it's better to ask now and get the details on the bearings. I don't want to find out in 2-3 years when I am going 65 mph on the free way for a short spurt in heavy traffic and to have a bearing fail, which has happened to other scooterists with different name brand bearings.
3) The bearings I ordered are "industrial bearings" not automotive said Kaman Industrial Technologies. Is this a problem?
Thanx in advance for your help,
Jeremy
Within four hours I received this response to my email from NSK:
"Jeremy,
Thank you for your interest in NSK. I hope the below response will help address any of your concerns.
Kaman Industrial Technologies is an Authorized NSK Distributor. It is unlikely that you would receive gray market bearings from this distributor. NSK 6305 bearings are manufactured in the US in Clarinda, IA. We do not mark our bearing that are made domestically with manufacturing location. For this particular size the C3 clearance is also not etched or stamped on
the bearing. The marking on the seals of the bearings that you have purchased include the bearing series ( 6305) and the manufacturing lot number.
NSK bearings that are marked "Japan" are manufactured in Japan and are intended for sale in the US.
You can be assured that the 6305 that you have purchased have been made in the US.
6305 bearing are used in other industries and applications other than automotive therefore the reason they were not listed as "automotive" bearings.
If you have any additional questions please feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Heather Strack
NSK Corporation
Marketing Communications
There is a lot of crap bearings being sold via the gray market and now some reputable shops won't even carry major brands, such as SKF. And there is a lot of inconsistency of quality in the some major bearing brands. Ask your shop what their policy is on bearings.
Remember when Mongoose BMX bikes were great bikes or when Iams was one of the top three dog foods? It wasn't that long ago! Now you can find Mongoose bikes being sold at Target and Iams at Walmart. People I speak with say, Iams is great food! Until I show them the ingredients and they feel like crap for feeding it to their dog for so long. They didn't do their research -- they just went off of brand name and previous reputation.
One reputable shop told me, "The gist is that our main bearing supplier won't order SKF bearings any more, because SKF will not guarantee which country the bearings were made in. He'd order the same stuff month to month, and one month they might be from Germany, and the next from India. He has clients with much higher stress applications than us, and they need a guarantee of quality, which can't be done when the bearings come from different countries like that. So, he won't stock SKF anymore, and nor will many other proper bearing houses."
Please always ask your bearing distributer where your bearings were made (it must be stamped on the bearing) and confirm that it was made to be used in the USA.
The shop also explained to me . . .
We don't use bearings from India full stop. The quality is too up and down and there have been plenty of problems with them over the years. Some seem fine, and other have catastrophic failure.
It doesn't matter which manufacturer made the bearing. You have to know 100% where the bearing was made and which country it was intended for. Which is why we only buy bearings from the same bearing house we've been buying from for years.
NSK bearings can be made in China. It depends who you are getting them off. If there is no country of origin marked on the bearing, they are from China.
Also, if you buy a bearing that was brought in on the grey market, there is no guarantee of quality, even of it was made in Japan or Europe. Dodgy bearing dealers import cheap bearings that were made for other countries, and not intended for use in the US. They are lower quality. Look for the case "SKF USA, Inc. v. International Trade Commission, 2005". It explains it all, and even some official brand bearing dealers are doing it.
Do your research! Eating it at 60 mph on 10 inch tires isn't worth it.
I ordered most of my bearings from Kaman Industrial Technologies and two of them are stamped "Japan" and the third (6305VV.C3) is not stamped at all. I called my rep immediately and said "are they from China?" She told me according to NSK . . . "PER FACTORY ALL MADE IN JAPAN". I feel a little a nervous.
Please do comment should you know anything contrary to this.
I emailed NSK the following:
Hello NSK,
I am rebuilding a vintage Lambretta scooter that can travel upwards up 60 mph and I purchased NSK bearings (some will be exposed to gasoline/oil mixture and require the tolerance for an engine) for the engine because of the positive reputation NSK has. I purchased them through Kaman Industrial Technologies.
From doing research, I have learned that there are a lot of grey market bearings be sold in the USA, which were not intended for use in America. Some of your name-brand competitors have gone to court over this because those bearings and stamped with their name on it. Bearings that do not have the country stamped on it often come from China and may not be of USA quality.
My questions are:
1) My biggest concern is I purchased NSK 6305VVC3 Radial Ball Bearing and there is NO indication of what country it was made in. The bearing is not stamped on the metal. The seals are stamped "6305V NSK A29" and the other side is stamped "6305V NSK A33". The bearing does not even indicate it is a C3 tolerance bearing, only the box does. The box does not indicate what country it was made in. Are you able to tell me where this bearing was made? And can you tell me if it was intended for use in the USA?
2) I purchased two other bearings that are stamped "Japan" and on the back of both boxes it says "made in Japan." The bearings are: NSK NU205M Cylindrical roller Bearing and NSK 6004 Radial Ball Bearing. Can you confirm that these were made for use in USA?
My thought is it's better to ask now and get the details on the bearings. I don't want to find out in 2-3 years when I am going 65 mph on the free way for a short spurt in heavy traffic and to have a bearing fail, which has happened to other scooterists with different name brand bearings.
3) The bearings I ordered are "industrial bearings" not automotive said Kaman Industrial Technologies. Is this a problem?
Thanx in advance for your help,
Jeremy
Within four hours I received this response to my email from NSK:
"Jeremy,
Thank you for your interest in NSK. I hope the below response will help address any of your concerns.
Kaman Industrial Technologies is an Authorized NSK Distributor. It is unlikely that you would receive gray market bearings from this distributor. NSK 6305 bearings are manufactured in the US in Clarinda, IA. We do not mark our bearing that are made domestically with manufacturing location. For this particular size the C3 clearance is also not etched or stamped on
the bearing. The marking on the seals of the bearings that you have purchased include the bearing series ( 6305) and the manufacturing lot number.
NSK bearings that are marked "Japan" are manufactured in Japan and are intended for sale in the US.
You can be assured that the 6305 that you have purchased have been made in the US.
6305 bearing are used in other industries and applications other than automotive therefore the reason they were not listed as "automotive" bearings.
If you have any additional questions please feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Heather Strack
NSK Corporation
Marketing Communications
Saturday, June 27, 2009
Spare engine dilemma
So I emailed my mentors the following question:
I am seriously considering rebuilding my spare TV175 engine now as I
will be building the one to go in my bike. I figure they are both
apart. Bead blast all the cases at the same time. Clean all the
parts, etc. will be easy.
I am also thinking about selling the second engine after rebuild to
help fund my restoration (but secretively I dream about finding
another TV minus the engine and having two). Here's my dilemma the
second engine is missing:
1) Entire kick start quadrant and kick start.
2) Entire top-end and piston
3) Clutch plates, springs, and the top of that assembly.
4) Possibly a crank. I have a good spare, I believe, but the one in
my other engine is currently frozen with flywheel. I just ordered a
flywheel remover tool from Gene today.
5) Bearing, seals, grommets, various hardware, etc.
6) Rear hub
7) Plate that connects to the engine case and then the flywheel
So the question is how much would a stock rebuilt with quality TV175
S3 engine go for. I am fearful that it would cost a lot to build for
a price that isn't much more than I invested in it. My other option
is to just sell the cases and parts separately if I decide to sell.
You guys all build either sell or have sold scoots and possibly
engines too . . . so I figure you guys would be the best to ask.
I have an opportunity to buy FAG or SKF bearings (I think I prefer the
FAGs as it seems they have a slightly better reputation than SKF and
no India factory bearings) for 1/2 the price I paid for NSKs and that
made me start thinking about all of this. If I am patient and rebuild
the second engine slowly I can find good deals piece by piece and
complete the engine at a lower cost, but with high quality.
At this point I am just going to hold on to what I have and see if another TV lands in my lap.
Answers:
"Yeah that's a tough call. It's one thing to build up a motor if you have a lot of spares laying around but quite a diffrent story to have to buy all the missing parts. Also it's a TV175 which can be harder to source all the correct resto parts for (top end espically).
If you still want to build another bike it dosen't hurt to have the case just sitting there untill you find a frame and all the parts to make it a complete bike. If you are worried about cost I'd sell off what you have and find a complete bike to rebuild." - Mike
I am seriously considering rebuilding my spare TV175 engine now as I
will be building the one to go in my bike. I figure they are both
apart. Bead blast all the cases at the same time. Clean all the
parts, etc. will be easy.
I am also thinking about selling the second engine after rebuild to
help fund my restoration (but secretively I dream about finding
another TV minus the engine and having two). Here's my dilemma the
second engine is missing:
1) Entire kick start quadrant and kick start.
2) Entire top-end and piston
3) Clutch plates, springs, and the top of that assembly.
4) Possibly a crank. I have a good spare, I believe, but the one in
my other engine is currently frozen with flywheel. I just ordered a
flywheel remover tool from Gene today.
5) Bearing, seals, grommets, various hardware, etc.
6) Rear hub
7) Plate that connects to the engine case and then the flywheel
So the question is how much would a stock rebuilt with quality TV175
S3 engine go for. I am fearful that it would cost a lot to build for
a price that isn't much more than I invested in it. My other option
is to just sell the cases and parts separately if I decide to sell.
You guys all build either sell or have sold scoots and possibly
engines too . . . so I figure you guys would be the best to ask.
I have an opportunity to buy FAG or SKF bearings (I think I prefer the
FAGs as it seems they have a slightly better reputation than SKF and
no India factory bearings) for 1/2 the price I paid for NSKs and that
made me start thinking about all of this. If I am patient and rebuild
the second engine slowly I can find good deals piece by piece and
complete the engine at a lower cost, but with high quality.
At this point I am just going to hold on to what I have and see if another TV lands in my lap.
Answers:
"Yeah that's a tough call. It's one thing to build up a motor if you have a lot of spares laying around but quite a diffrent story to have to buy all the missing parts. Also it's a TV175 which can be harder to source all the correct resto parts for (top end espically).
If you still want to build another bike it dosen't hurt to have the case just sitting there untill you find a frame and all the parts to make it a complete bike. If you are worried about cost I'd sell off what you have and find a complete bike to rebuild." - Mike
Friday, June 26, 2009
Bearings
In a previous post I research what I need to know about the individual bearings and what stresses they are under. I did this before ordering my bearings.
The above bearing came from Scooters Originali. RIV is OEM for Lambrettas and it is my understanding that it is a high quality bearing. It costs $60 and was included in my first engine parts order. I spoke with my mentor Tom G. (noted heavily in the restoration of my wife's Vespa SS180).
The following bearings I ordered from Kaman Industrial Technologies:
$50.63 - NSK NU205M Cylindrical roller Bearing (made in Japan)
$24.42 - NSK 6305VVC3 Radial Ball Bearing (made in USA)
$19.00 - NSK 6004 Radial Ball Bearing (made in Japan)
Total: $114.87 = $103.22 + $11.65 to ship to their warehouse what they did not have in stock. They shipped to my address for free, but I still needed to pay the freight cost from their sister warehouses. I dealt with Tonia Riveria at Kaman Industrial Technologies in San Leandro, Calif. and recommend her highly. She did a lot research for me regarding the bearings and was joy to work with.
I ordered my needle bearings from Jet200 along with my electronic ignition:
$12.75 - Layshaft needle bearing
$24.70 - Clutch needle bearing (qty: 2)
$12.75 - Gear cluster needle bearing
The above bearing came from Scooters Originali. RIV is OEM for Lambrettas and it is my understanding that it is a high quality bearing. It costs $60 and was included in my first engine parts order. I spoke with my mentor Tom G. (noted heavily in the restoration of my wife's Vespa SS180).
The following bearings I ordered from Kaman Industrial Technologies:
$50.63 - NSK NU205M Cylindrical roller Bearing (made in Japan)
$24.42 - NSK 6305VVC3 Radial Ball Bearing (made in USA)
$19.00 - NSK 6004 Radial Ball Bearing (made in Japan)
Total: $114.87 = $103.22 + $11.65 to ship to their warehouse what they did not have in stock. They shipped to my address for free, but I still needed to pay the freight cost from their sister warehouses. I dealt with Tonia Riveria at Kaman Industrial Technologies in San Leandro, Calif. and recommend her highly. She did a lot research for me regarding the bearings and was joy to work with.
I ordered my needle bearings from Jet200 along with my electronic ignition:
$12.75 - Layshaft needle bearing
$24.70 - Clutch needle bearing (qty: 2)
$12.75 - Gear cluster needle bearing
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